So while there are isolated cases of enforcement, they're rare. And especially on the high seas, in international waters, there's no, you know, police force that is out there patrolling. And then also, laws are only as good as their enforcement. There are lots of laws, but the laws are often written in a murky or contradictory way. It's not the case that there are no laws. URBINA: Yeah, so, I approached this space both as a frontier and as an outlaw, by which I mean an extralegal space.

I mean, there's a whole system of accountability. The Outlaw Ocean to what extent do we understand that there's no law out there? I mean, in this society, we live where, hey, if you have a parking ticket, they come for you and they boot your car. Ian recently joined me at the New England Aquarium near our Boston studios for a live event to share some of his stories.ĬURWOOD: Ian, let me just start by asking you. At times he risked his life in his quest to shed light on the dark corners of our seas. New York Times investigative reporter Ian Urbina spent a number of years researching and writing his new book, The Outlaw Ocean: Journeys Across the Last Untamed Frontier. With such little attention from society it’s also no surprise that lawlessness is rampant out on the open ocean, with crimes ranging from illegal fishing to slavery at sea. CURWOOD: It’s Living on Earth, I’m Steve Curwood.Ībout seventy percent of our planet is covered by the oceans, yet we know more about the surface of the moon than the deep ocean.

The Outlaw Ocean by Ian Urbina